I can understand the apprehension to "creeping magazine influences" into the realm of "journalism." There are always hierarchies, or more precisely, perceived hierarchies, within and among similar disciplines, but there needn't be, the market will sort that out.

Okay, many have said that there is nothing new with this redesign, but that matters little to me. I don't care about the technical aspects, though I do understand them. I don't care about newspaper tradition, though I respect it. What I do care about however, is that it is user friendly, informative, (I don't speak Dutch so that's moot) and that it's beautifully designed, which IMHO it is. I suppose in large part I am responding to its progressive qualities, which I tend to favor. We shall see in time how cleverly they use the format. Really Nice Design!

Now is time for professionals! good job, I can't read but still I like it!!

think the Bis section and the Encore covers are terrific. - typographically magnificent.
the other covers are okay, but nothing special.
the front pages, however, are - and I use this word with some thought - disgraceful. zero impact. if i want wallpaper i'll go to a decorating shop. but at a newsagent i expect something better.

sorry deMorgan.. but you've been suckered by Garcia...

every think about going into the teatowel business?

and folks - given that this is a site for specialists to be analytical, here's an idea ... when something sucks, let's say so... I get the feeling I could put up a yellow pages and someone would say - "aw jeez ... terrific job .... get in the hole ... four more years" ... or some such....

Here's the thing I see chou, and perhaps this is why I feel an inherent need to disagree with you here. I'm looking at these pages and I'm seeing lots of agression -- the very thing you said wasn't in the pages in your initial post.

But much like the Hartford Courant, that aggression is coming from the content and the photography, the usage of quotes, the usage of typography. I mean, you don't get more aggressive than a naked girl hugging a member of Depeche Mode.

Not all newspapers need to follow the styles of the New York Post or the Brit tabs to be aggressive.

I take your postings as kind of an anti-magazine-influence, but really, newspapers could learn a lot from magazines.

With papers that have such large scales of content in large cities, ultimately, not everything coming out of the pipe is hard news, and we need to keep in mind that being the paper of record doesn't mean that we cover the blood and guts and nothing else.

Nor does it mean that we should style our content around the blood and guts OR the lighter content. Rather, we need to have something that reflects the busy lifestyles of the people who read the newspaper, and a 10% screen won't take away from the emotion of a strong photograph or illustration or a headline if we do it properly, nor will it take away from the people that read our newspapers. In fact, it should add something. I'm betting it adds a lot.

You can call this redesign boring all you want. Truth is, powerful heads, unobtrusive usage of strong photography and illustration and smart organization are pretty damn aggressive considering where newspapers were 20 years ago. We should be promoting further progress rather than finding a way to cut it down.

To chou: once again, it's De MorgEn, not De MorgAn.

thanks Jurgan ...

and to Ernie - what I'm railing against is nothing like as complex as you suppose... all I'm saying (and I said it at length on the previous De MorgAn discussion) is how our community of newspaper designers is increasingly predisposed to pour adulation all over Mario Garcia and his cloney redesigns.

It's their utter lack of originality I can't stand. But worse is the cheerleading hysterics that supposedly critical professionals greet his latest project with.

You can see his stuff a mile off. He's a one-trick pony and de morgan is merely an extension of a long career spent playing around with the pastels.

Garcia has influenced more great newspaper design than anyone in this room or anyone else who's visited this site, and he has for over 25 years. I don't see how his aggressive approach on this paper buys into the one-trick pony concept. This is MUCH different from most of his American work.

He's as highly vaulted a name as Richard Curtis, Edmund Arnold and Nanette Bisher for a reason: His work speaks for itself.

He may do things in a splashy, colorful, nontraditional way unlike some of his fellow redesigners like Bill Ostendorf or Alan Jacobson, but Garcia's far more influential than those two. Even if you disagree, just keep in mind that Garcia is someone who should be respected, because your job as a news designer would be quite different if he didn't help expand the definition of what a newspaper could be.

Even then, the fact that Garcia worked on this doesn't take away from its strengths. What if this was a Ron Reason production or a Jacobson/Ostendorf joint? Would your opinion change?

No matter how much color there is on the page, it's still great, aggressive design, and it would still be no matter which jetsetter took the task on.

to chou:

i agree with you in almost every thing you had written, but must of all: let’s be honest... we are professionals. we don’t have to be polite or well mannered when we think the other way... besides, sometimes it is very hard for me as a non english spoken person to say something “bad” in a nice way, or good without looking like a “sissy”

this is absolutely gorgeous.

The disparity in opionion certainly is interesting to me. Seemingly there are those who are nonplused or down right offended, an then there are those who are bowled over. Wow!

I have no strong opinion pro or con about Mr. Garcia (except that I bought his book and I found many typos in it!), but more power to him.
Ernie makes many good points, particulary that
"because your job as a news designer would be quite different if he didn't help expand the definition of what a newspaper could be."

The dwindling readership at most (perhaps all?) newspapers speaks for itself. I think redesigns like DeMorgen breath life into the industry.

I love how they have used type as the dominant "image" an A1 and on bis, I think the use of the many screens creates a lively dynamic (I wonder what it looks like in person with this waterless print technology they've invested in?), it's very liner and well organized, I like their choice of typefaces--very modern, and their not afraid to use large, strong imagery.

Whatever the verdict, the opinions seemingly are strong!

guys: you really ummmm! Sometimes we have to learn from the others and viceversa, his job is really "god" or not!!!???
and I not 'polite' I'm honest and no blind person, this job is totally professional.
And really I don't is Garcia, Robb, Ron, etc, is a good job, period.

to Chou: you don't like Garcia!!? ummmmm!!
maybe you like Garcia-Media Chou Inc!! is a joke!!

or maybe Garcia-Media AlexChou Group, nah!!
hippiesdesign inc.! nah
maybe you guys need more experience!

Maybe you are right Jesús... but who wants your 20 years of experience to end working for a free news magazine published
every two weeks and distributed throughout the Dane County area in South-Central Wisconsin at $35/hour?

is a joke!!!!

unfortunately, for some, ego doesn't count for much in the world of design. No matter how much one tries to verbally convince others of their prowess, alas it ultimately comes down to their work. Too bad for some.

One thing I've learned in 30 years of being a painter and nearly 20 years in graphic design, is that those who try to pass themselves off as the second coming of a design "Jesus" are usually the worst of their lot. I think most of of us know that and have met more than a few of those people in our travels.

It's also unfortunate for those folks, that their work is sometimes posted on professional websites for all to see. It's the "work" that is the true test of ones ability, not their mouth.
Check your ego.

Ahh, waooo finally Chao Spy, but you miss 2 magazine in Los Angeles and Hawaii, every month now recalculate (Chou is not about the money) and Madison is beatiful and I have big salary not hourly and I'm proud of my experience and my job, I love design is my passion, and is no about the money always we have to love the place the magazine and I created this magazine and many but this is special you know is serious newsmagazine and I love it.
Stuart is right
he "work" that is the true test of ones ability, not their mouth.
Check your ego. (again)

Upss Alex is the same!! who are you?
Alexandro

Well-said Stuart.

Tony: If your salary is commensurate to your belief in your efficacious design ability, then you're obviously a millionaire.

The majority of the users of this site expect a higher level of communication. Spell words. Use punctuation. Express yourself intelligently -- this isn't junior high.

Chou chose to express an opinion, one that was reinforced with examples. Whether you agree or not is up to you, but don't bash Chou or anyone for 'lack of expertise' just because they don't like a Garcia redesign.

Before you hit post next time, weigh whether your opinion is worthy of 200,000K views. In that context, it should force you to actually reason with conviction, as opposed to throwing lame "jokes" out at respected industry pros.

Read more, post less.

To Jeff: you right I cross the line I'm sorry for that, really sorry.
anyway Jeff in my personal opinion (maybe I'm right, maybe not)I like this job to much and sometimes I disagree from others emotional designers and maybe they have different opinions and viewpoints about redesign, I created different publications my whole life and I see different viewpoints, different readers and different markets, but European readers are more elegant and more educated, for that reason I disagree with his opinion and this redesign is special for this reader.

Like some other folks, I haven't been a fan of everything Mario has done ... but I've still got a lot of respect for the guy. And in this case, he's done a pretty damn nice job.

I love how he can make those simple, straight-forward Helvetica-like fonts still look cool. His use of big, screened-back type, the white space, color screens and a consistent color palette seem to bring it all together.

If some of you think you can do a better job than Mr. Garcia, then please ... go do it. Our "cloned" American papers need all the help they can get.